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[S15] CTWL Format Poll

S15 CTWL Format

  • Randomized Track List

  • Seasonal Track List

  • Protect and Bans


Results are only viewable after voting.

CallumSCO

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#21
you'll just have to trust that we are trying our best to compose a list that complements the community's list for a fun, competitive environment.
If you were going to try and compliment what the community wants would it not be better to let the community pick 32 of the tracks and let council pick the final 16 and tie any loose ends the community leaves behind? If the community picks almost all running tracks for example council could fill their 16 tracks with almost all luck/item based tracks to balance the track list. Generally playing cts competitively is more about lines than regs anyway, and there doesn't have to be a perfect split between all the different types of tracks for the system to work.
 
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
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#24
Limiting tracks in any way will always be better for ct wars specifically, now if this is done through option 1 or 2 is subjective. However, it should be seen as a fact that having all tracks available will only mean a smaller spectrum of tracks will be picked, it will only mean you want to pick certain tracks before opponents to make sure they don't pick it against you, it will only result in picking broken tracks with dumb starting spots, it will only result in a stupid coin-flip simulator. It is not good. Not to mention a team like Daisy cheesing wins with 5 first track picks in a row, which has happened on multiple occasions.
Counter-arguments could be given "RTs also have broken spots, like TF and DDR". You are correct, but these spots do not extend to the height of value as Sparkly Road, Horror Mansion, Flowery Greenhouse et cetera. Besides, we're not playing RT WL, which is vanilla MKW, this is CT WL, with additions and options to change.
"Just pick other tracks if you dislike a small spectrum" Why would you pick tracks that you have a smaller advantage on? That's just downright stupid.

Plus side is, you will be learning more tracks, more strategies, more ways to win. People who are better at all custom tracks will win more frequently now, don't you think?

I can see that certain teams will only pick tracks that they enjoy, but that's not gonna be the case for everyone, as they pick tracks to win. Giving a limit to the latter is what is trying to be achieved and anyone attacking that should try and think broader than for themselves and their circle.

TLDR
In no way can you justify picking a max of 20 track diversion or cheesing wins because of winning track selections. It may be fun, but it doesn't suit a competitive league.
 

Noob

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#25
Aight so I don’t play CTs that much but I’m confused af. If p much the entirety of ct players want a format where u can pick any track, why isn’t that an option? I’m not tryna be rude or anything just genuinely confused. Could someone (preferably a council member) let me know.
P.S
I don’t keep up with CT news cause I couldn’t care less so sorry if this was already asked/answered. But this is actually interesting that council went against what a good amount of players wanted.
 
Joined
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#26
Aight so I don’t play CTs that much but I’m confused af. If p much the entirety of ct players want a format where u can pick any track, why isn’t that an option? I’m not tryna be rude or anything just genuinely confused. Could someone (preferably a council member) let me know.
P.S
I don’t keep up with CT news cause I couldn’t care less so sorry if this was already asked/answered. But this is actually interesting that council went against what a good amount of players wanted.
It's not "p much the entirety of ct players", it's a minority I think, I don't know the exact percentages, but there will always be more people giving negative feedback and criticism than people defending and positive feedback.
 

Alex.

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#27
It's not "p much the entirety of ct players", it's a minority I think, I don't know the exact percentages, but there will always be more people giving negative feedback and criticism than people defending and positive feedback.
i dont follow cts closely (actually, at all) and i actually am in favor of the second option since it was brought up last season. you're right that most of the time the majority of people will always give negative feedback instead of positive but from what ive seen and the countless arguments ive had with monyz about this, id have to say this: from what i can tell, the only/the majority of people who dont like all track being picked are the people who were in d1 and had to play against daisy squad where they "abused" the format picking daisy tracks. So changes were made next season because people complained. and a similar thing happened this season with playoffs, people complained about the new double elim bracket and how it doesnt "favor" the higher seed and playoffs have been complained about for the longest times since if the first seed doesnt win, the only thing they can do is complain and say how much more they deserved the banner over the other team since they were first seed going into playoffs. The reason it got changed so late is because in general, wl has been undergoing changes with saik at the helm. And i think thats what you're trying to pinpoint in your argument about: there will always be more people giving negative feedback and criticism than people defending and positive feedback, but i think in think in this case, you're actually the minority who got their way last season. The fact of the matter is, many teams refuse to play in the two formats (or at least strongly oppose the two, but will play for the sake of playing). -side note, you were apart of that division, playing for VA who went 1-11 maybe pushing why you feel this so strongly? thats only an assumption, obviously i dont know you personally or claim to know your exact reasoning.
-to go with this, nothing limits a team from exclusively using daisy and using track picks to your advantage, as this should be easily countered with going daisy yourself or not worrying about it and trying to beat the other team using other methods of play. Although this is obviously not ideal, i dont see why we should be limiting the format solely because a team won using that daisy method. If a third party were to come in with no feelings on the subject like council has regarding that season, id say nothing would change and they would be in favor of no change. (I tend to think of the term bush league since ive heard that term my whole life being an athlete in baseball. Although frowned upon, or maybe not seen as the best sportsmanship, nothing actually limits the actions)
bush league
/ˈbo͝oSH ˈˌlēɡ/
NORTH AMERICAN
noun

  1. 1.
    a minor league of a professional sport, especially baseball.
    "their bush league image"
adjective
INFORMAL

  1. 1.
    not of the highest quality or sophistication; second-rate.


just another thing id like to bring up: Counter-arguments could be given "RTs also have broken spots, like TF and DDR". You are correct, but these spots do not extend to the height of value as Sparkly Road, Horror Mansion, Flowery Greenhouse et cetera. Besides, we're not playing RT WL, which is vanilla MKW, this is CT WL, with additions and options to change.
ive had long discussions with monyz in particular, and again, remember im on the side of the 48 tracks even though my opinion might be on the other side now. Monyz argues that limiting track picks to 48 (which was something close to my opinion at the time) is trying to make cts into regs. and you said yourself, we're not playing rt wl, we're playing ctwl. Just some food for thought

I can clearly understand why you think that restricting picks is better, and i was in the same mindset at one point. but i think most of the logical reasoning coming from players on why to restrict is just complaining from something that didnt go their way. however i dont know how qualified i am to speak on the subject, as my only experience with cts is fucking around in ctwl this season and conversations with monyz and a few others, not to mention i dont have a high interest in cts.
 
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Wiimmfi
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#28
It's not "p much the entirety of ct players", it's a minority I think, I don't know the exact percentages, but there will always be more people giving negative feedback and criticism than people defending and positive feedback.
We can find out if it's a minority if council has the brain to put it on the survey...
 

Aditya~

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Wiimmfi
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#29
Seeing how many people are requesting to go back to the old way with the choice of all the tracks, consider adding that as an option (in a new poll)?
 
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Wiimmfi
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#32
Seeing how many people are requesting to go back to the old way with the choice of all the tracks, consider adding that as an option (in a new poll)?
cant wait to see ctd1 if its all tracks
Another suggestion may be is to allow the reps of each team of each division to decide the format for their division similar to them deciding if there will be playoffs
 

Kona

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#33
i'm in favor of the same format as last season but that's only because idk cts and i want to have a chance

HOWEVER that's not what ctwl is all about imo, if you know a lot of cts then you should be rewarded for it

the poll options currently given are pretty trash and it's annoying to me that council literally made a poll that doesn't give people a chance to pick a format that they actually want
 

Tea

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#35
This was brought up in #general-discussion in the WL server, but an idea that was brought up was the "Protection and Ban System"

How this will work is that all tracks will be allowed, but sometime before the match starts, teams will protect and ban tracks. The general format is like this:

Phase 1:
- Team A will protect X amount of tracks
- Team B will protect X amount of tracks (same as Team A)
- Team A will ban Y amount of tracks
- Team B will ban Y amount of tracks (same as Team A)

Phase 2:
- Team B will protect Z amount of tracks (different than phase 1)
- Team A will protect Z amount of tracks (same as Team B in phase 2)
- Team B will ban W amount of tracks (different than phase 1)
- Team A will ban W amount of tracks (same as Team B in phase 2)

The numbers are still up for disussion. @~Maidvelia❤~ suggested something along the lines of 2 protections and 3 bans in phase 1 and 3 protections 5 bans in phase 2.

Here's an example with real teams.

Phase 1:
XF protects Glimmer Express Trains and Lost Fortress
Bc protects Candy Coaster and Sparkly Road
XF bans DS Tick Tock Clock, Lunar Spaceway, and Big Nature City
Bc bans Final Grounds, Castle of Time, and Mushroom Peaks

Phase 2:
Bc protects GBA Boo Lake, Six King Labyrinth, and Incendia Castle
XF protects Twin Peaks, Crystal Plains, and N64 Banshee Boardwalk
Bc bans Nivurbia, GBA Ribbon Road, Mushroom Island, Yoshi Lagoon, and Wolf Castlegrounds
XF bans Infernal Pipeyard, Delfino Island, GBA Sunset Wilds, Lakeside Hill, and N64 Yoshi Valley

What do you guys think of this? Some people who participated in the discussion likes it, but it's be great to hear more opinions.
 

CallumSCO

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#36
This was brought up in #general-discussion in the WL server, but an idea that was brought up was the "Protection and Ban System"

How this will work is that all tracks will be allowed, but sometime before the match starts, teams will protect and ban tracks. The general format is like this:

Phase 1:
- Team A will protect X amount of tracks
- Team B will protect X amount of tracks (same as Team A)
- Team A will ban Y amount of tracks
- Team B will ban Y amount of tracks (same as Team A)

Phase 2:
- Team B will protect Z amount of tracks (different than phase 1)
- Team A will protect Z amount of tracks (same as Team B in phase 2)
- Team B will ban W amount of tracks (different than phase 1)
- Team A will ban W amount of tracks (same as Team B in phase 2)

The numbers are still up for disussion. @~Maidvelia❤~ suggested something along the lines of 2 protections and 3 bans in phase 1 and 3 protections 5 bans in phase 2.

Here's an example with real teams.

Phase 1:
XF protects Glimmer Express Trains and Lost Fortress
Bc protects Candy Coaster and Sparkly Road
XF bans DS Tick Tock Clock, Lunar Spaceway, and Big Nature City
Bc bans Final Grounds, Castle of Time, and Mushroom Peaks

Phase 2:
Bc protects GBA Boo Lake, Six King Labyrinth, and Incendia Castle
XF protects Twin Peaks, Crystal Plains, and N64 Banshee Boardwalk
Bc bans Nivurbia, GBA Ribbon Road, Mushroom Island, Yoshi Lagoon, and Wolf Castlegrounds
XF bans Infernal Pipeyard, Delfino Island, GBA Sunset Wilds, Lakeside Hill, and N64 Yoshi Valley

What do you guys think of this? Some people who participated in the discussion likes it, but it's be great to hear more opinions.
I’m personally all for this as it allows the community to play what they want while removing my fear of too much council influences
 
OP
Articuno

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Thread Starter #39
A third proposed format was added yesterday. You’ll need to revote.
 
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Wiimmfi
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#40
As Protect and Ban seems to be an overwhelmingly popular option, I have developed a hypothetical list that I believe are tracks that could be banned under the restriction below with reasons why they could be banned. This is an opinion, and debate or comments on the tracks would be greatly appreciated
- The pool of tracks is not the full 218 tracks. It will be a Global Tracklist that removes the tracks that are unfit for competitive play from the list. Reasons for tracks to be removed from the tracklist includes but is not limited to: broken shortcut tracks, tracks with tight areas that are impossible to navigate, broken bill areas, tracks that give players an extremely high win percentage based on their starting position, tracks where the most viable route can be blocked by one single item, tracks will little to no item boxes.
  • The list of tracks that will be available to play will be released at a later date if this option is the number one option.
  • Council will need help from people to determine whether or not a track should or should not be allowed as long as reasons are backing up the decision.
  • Any track not in the pool for available picked tracks will be given specific reason(s) for each track.
Calidae Desert

  • Overpowered shortcut

F-Zero White Land

  • Hairpin turn (Image did not work) can effectively force non-daisy to slow down beyond normal drifting to take it, especially with a fib



Green Park

  • Somewhat overpowered shortcut
Haunted Woods

  • Overpowered shortcut/ absolute death if tsed in the short cut
Item Fireland

  • Fire tunnel is oob in the last section before finish line, can be very damaging
Melting Magma Melee

  • The big hill with the sticky track after can sometimes send players flying off the track.
Red Loop

  • Fireballs are tightly spaced, very little margin for error in the last turn
Sacred Fogcoast

  • Fog is a little to thick in some sections and can make traps impossible to avoid
Sandcastle Park

  • Broken shortcut, even more broken when done with a single shroom

Shadow Woods

  • Could create same track pick problem as with Daisy, If a team was down by 100 going into gp3 they could go magikruiser and pick this, Haunted woods, and Green Park and potentially comeback.
Sixth King Labyrinth

  • Overpowered Shortcut

SNES Bowser Castle 2

  • Extremely narrow section of road before last turn also made more challenging and tight by fireball bowser.
SNES Ghost Valley 1

  • Visibility is horrible, can hardly see a wall until you hit it, off road section is random and nearly invisible.

Sparkly Road

  • Op for whoever starts in second place, Baggers have a lot more than 30 seconds to race each other after race ends
Toad Raceway

  • Overpowered shortcut

Winter Paradise

  • Last ramp has max value offroad in a reasonable landing range if you aim slightly of optimal line or get bumped
Wuhu Mountain

  • Overpowered shortcut
 
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