[S15] CTWL Format Poll

[Articuno]

Hey everyone,

Here is a poll regarding CTWL for the upcoming season. Council would like the communities opinion. We have two now three options that we would like to have a poll between.

Option 1 - Current Weekly Randomized Format
The first option for this poll is the current weekly randomized format. Here is a rundown of this format:

• Each week on the Sunday prior to the week, a randomized list of 26 tracks will be given to the teams to play for the upcoming week.
• Tracks are not available for the following 3 weeks after they are played (i.e. track is in W2 list cannot be played during W3 / W4 / W5, able to play W6)

Option 2 - Seasonal Tracklist
The second option for this poll is a Seasonal Tracklist that will be used for the whole season. Here is a rundown of what will be entitled for this format:

• A list of 48 tracks will be given to teams ahead of the start of the season that will be used for the upcoming season.
• The list of the tracks will be mixed on community vote and Council’s decisions.
• If this is chosen, a community questionnaire will be released where each individual is able to vote for 4 tracks they would like in the upcoming season.
• We are aiming to use 16 tracks from the communities side in the mix of the 48 tracks.
• Every season, the 48 tracks will change. Some tracks may overlap, but we do want a majority of a fresh list each upcoming seasons.
• If a track is replaced mid season, a new track will be added to the list as soon as Council knows which track is being taken out of CTGP.

Option 3 - Protect and Ban

The third option for the poll is a Protect and Ban format. Here is a rundown of this format:
- Prior to the beginning of the match, teams will do a protect and ban phase.
- The format for this is:
* Team A protects 2 tracks.
* Team B protects 2 tracks.
* Team A bans 3 tracks.
* Team B bans 3 tracks.
* Team A protects 3 more tracks.
* Team B protects 3 more tracks.
* Team A bans 5 more tracks.
* Team B bans 5 more tracks.

This makes it so 16 tracks are banned from playing, allowing teams to pick from the rest of the pool of tracks.
- The pool of tracks is not the full 218 tracks. It will be a Global Tracklist that removes the tracks that are unfit for competitive play from the list. Reasons for tracks to be removed from the tracklist includes but is not limited to: broken shortcut tracks, tracks with tight areas that are impossible to navigate, broken bill areas, tracks that give players an extremely high win percentage based on their starting position, tracks where the most viable route can be blocked by one single item, tracks will little to no item boxes.

• The list of tracks that will be available to play will be released at a later date if this option is the number one option.
• Council will need help from people to determine whether or not a track should or should not be allowed as long as reasons are backing up the decision.
• Any track not in the pool for available picked tracks will be given specific reason(s) for each track.

Spoiler: Format Example

Team A: We protect Volcanic Valley and Coral Cape
Team B: We protect Jungle Jamble and Final Grounds
Team A: We ban Volcanic Skyway 2, Jungle Cliff, Gothic Castle
Team B: We ban Mushroom Island, Mushroom Peaks, Kinoko Cave
Team A: We protect Luncheon Tour, New Moon Manor, Halogen Highway
Team B: We protect Item Fireland, Sky Grove, SNES Vanilla Lake 2
Team A: We ban Seasonal Circuit, Sparkly Road, Lunar Lights, Lunar Spaceway, Wario's Shipwreck
Team B: We ban Slot Circuit, Underground Sky, N64 Choco Mounntain, GBA Luigi Circuit, GBA Mario Circuit

Please vote regarding which format you would like to play for the upcoming CTWL season. The poll will end Sunday, January 6th at 11:59PM EST. We will bring further details later depending on the outcome of the poll. If you have any questions regarding the formats, please let us know in the WL server or on this thread.

Thanks,
WL Council.

 

[Quindarious Gooch]

where's the unlimited format

 

[CallumSCO]

What do you mean by "council decisions" on a seasonal tracklist?

 

[StaraDaragh]

wheres the none of the above option?

 

[British]

Can we just cancel wiimmfi

 

[Articuno]

What do you mean by "council decisions" on a seasonal tracklist?

Council will choose the remaining of the tracks that will be added to the list for the season.

 

[Spoofy]

neither

 

[Trashy’s love]

Bring back the format everyone wants

 

[CallumSCO]

Council will choose the remaining of the tracks that will be added to the list for the season.

So couldn't that result in council disproportionally choosing tracks that favour their team? Doesn't seem very fair to me. Why should council's opinions matter more than everyone else?

 

[Epix]

 

[Hawk]

So couldn't that result in council disproportionally choosing tracks that favour their team? Doesn't seem very fair to me. Why should council's opinions matter more than everyone else?

I suppose you could also say that we as council could conspire and create the "random" lists as well...

the plan atm is to balance the tracks in a way that we feel best fills out the tracks the community chooses. I'm pretty sure that the community is not going to choose tracks that are all good for bad spots, top spots, mid spots etc. we want to balance things so you aren't stuck picking all frontrunning tracks or all bottom tracks when you don't have the spots for them.

 

[CallumSCO]

I suppose you could also say that we as council could conspire and create the "random" lists as well...

the plan atm is to balance the tracks in a way that we feel best fills out the tracks the community chooses. I'm pretty sure that the community is not going to choose tracks that are all good for bad spots, top spots, mid spots etc. we want to balance things so you aren't stuck picking all frontrunning tracks or all bottom tracks when you don't have the spots for them.

But that also means that council can fill in said spots with tracks that they specifically like/help their teams. In my opinion council should see what the community chooses for the 48, and make changes only if they are needed, as people will claim (including me right now) that council could skew the additional tracks to favour them.

Council being able to chose two thirds of the track list gives way too much power to a small group of people, which I think will result in these people being able to give a balanced list of tracks, but a list that will end up benefitting these people due to the bias these people will naturally have

 

[Hawk]

But that also means that council can fill in said spots with tracks that they specifically like/help their teams. In my opinion council should see what the community chooses for the 48, and make changes only if they are needed, as people will claim (including me right now) that council could skew the additional tracks to favour them.

I know what you mean, but the council is composed of 10 different people, and the most overlap there is between teams is three people at the maximum. like for other things such as trolling penalties, even if people make a case for their own intentions you have to convince other people as well, some of which may be voting directly against you. Like I was trying to say earlier, you could make the same argument and say that the lists we made last season weren't random, and I instead hand picked some of my favorite courses for the important matchups. I didn't actually do that of course, but I can't prove that to you.

 

[Epix]

Should've the harsh reaction towards the format of season 14 been enough for council to have realized that their decision of the 20/40 track rule was not in favor of the majority but of the highest elites of the ct and reg community since council consists of both reg and ct players. This rule has seemed like a lazy way for people who do not want to learn every ct and still be successful in CTWL. One of the points brought up before s14 was that, "track picks decide who wins", which is always going to be true no matter what the rule set says. This new format that is being brought up for discussion is somehow a lazier way for people to play CTWL. Why not get rid of all of the skill and knowledge that ct players have of each custom track and completely throw it out the window? Sure. Limit it to 40 tracks, so there is no diversity in tracks week to week whatsoever. I thought the original goal of the 20 track rule was to eliminate people picking the same tracks every week. I guess not because the that seems to be the aim for the seasonal track discussion. There are going to be several popular tracks such as say Sparkly Road that is going to be picked every single week of WL for obvious reasons. The goal of CTWL is to have a competitive environment for CT players who play every track in lounge each day and to limit those tracks to a select 40 is ridiculous.

 

[CallumSCO]

I know what you mean, but the council is composed of 10 different people, and the most overlap there is between teams is three people at the maximum. like for other things such as trolling penalties, even if people make a case for their own intentions you have to convince other people as well, some of which may be voting directly against you. Like I was trying to say earlier, you could make the same argument and say that the lists we made last season weren't random, and I instead hand picked some of my favorite courses for the important matchups. I didn't actually do that of course, but I can't prove that to you.

But the difference is you guys didn't really have a say/created a list and just used a random number generator I'm assuming. The difference here is that you are creating a list which won't be up to chance, but instead will be selectively chosen, where you could just do what you wanted and the community couldn't do anything about it. You're giving a lot of power to yourselves and not the community by giving the community the minority instead of the majority of the track list, especially considering the community has very different views on what custom tracks are good and what tracks are not, if you need proof play in any ct lounge event,

 

[~Maidvelia❤︎~]

Neither of them, do bans and counterpicks like other competitive games.

 

[Ryan.]

Neither of them, do bans and counterpicks like other competitive games.

Honestly agree

 

[Hawk]

But the difference is you guys didn't really have a say/created a list and just used a random number generator I'm assuming. The difference here is that you are creating a list which won't be up to chance, but instead will be selectively chosen, where you could just do what you wanted and the community couldn't do anything about it. You're giving a lot of power to yourselves and not the community by giving the community the minority instead of the majority of the track list, especially considering the community has very different views on what custom tracks are good and what tracks are not, if you need proof play in any ct lounge event.

no, I can freely edit the lists in the simple program that spits out tracklists however I wanted to and no one would know about it at all, as we didn't do those live. anyway, of course we have power, that's what being on council entails. our job is to use our judgment and determine what is best for the health of the league overall. with regards to comparing lounge ffa or 2v2 track picks and war preferred track picks... well I'm sure you know those don't overlap all too well. if we gave you the power to vote for all tracks, there is very little chance that you guys will compose a balanced list because it's a popularity contest. you'll just have to trust that we are trying our best to compose a list that complements the community's list for a fun, competitive environment.

also, keep in mind that these seasonal lists are seasonal, meaning they will not be the same every season; if we decide to go with this format and stick with it until the next season, there will be very little list similarity if any at all for the following season.

 

[Viktor]

Should put me in council I make the best league ever

 

[Epix]

What issue is the seasonal track ruleset going to solve that isn't mutual between that ruleset and the 218 track ruleset?