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[S14] CTWL and its meta

Niko

Active member
WL Staff
Joined
Jun 25, 2018
Messages
275
#1
This time, we would like to touch on something that most likely has started to become more of a problem than ever:


With an idea thrown out by Rookie here, we will just cut straight to the point that we wish to make.
In our current meta with [technically] over 200+ tracks available to us, every team that mostly played tracks for quite some time now has one thing in mind during matches with certain spots:

“Top 3? Pick GBA Boo Lake, Horror Mansion, Colour Wonderland...”
“2, 3, 4? Pick Sparkly Road, Hell Pyramid…”


...and so on, you should get the idea.
(We’re aware that Boo Lake in particular is fixed, merely think of it as an example here.)


Yes, with certain spots, you pick certain tracks which is common sense because RTWL does it, MK7 did it, MK8 does it and this approach of strategy most likely will never ever change.
The key difference is that getting that type of picks in CTWL matches matters a lot more than they would in any other format/game we just pointed out above due to how many advantages they grant you on those specific tracks.
That also leads to a meta on Custom Tracks which is constantly shifting around the same 20 tracks for quite some seasons now. Why is that?
The advantages you’re being given are just too huge to be ignored and it would even worse for you to have the opponent snatch those advantages from you so hitting anyone with the "you don't have to pick those tracks if you don't want to"-argument isn't holding much water from a strategic point of view.
This obviously gets a lot worse when a team gets around 70% of the track picks which at this point is a very common thing to occur.
The decisive factor here in conclusion is [pretty much]: who gets certain track picks first?



So how do we plan on going into CTWL differently?
As mentioned in the video, a set of tracks (32) that gets switched up each season was an idea to get a taste of the diversity that CTGP actually is capable of offering rather than just limiting ourselves to the same 20 tracks every single time like it has been the case for the past 2-3 Seasons in CTWL now.
The WL Council however wishes to combine that idea along with a random-only idea into one and here's a quick run-down of how we will do it:

- WL Council randomized a list of 20 tracks for each week league-wide
- those lists will be announced in a channel that CT-reps have access to ahead of match time
- as for what league-wide means; basically, all divisions will have to play with the same list we randomise for W1, same for W2, etc.

That way, we believe that we would give people a lot more needed diversity for CTWL and it would get rid of a hardcore track pick meta when Custom Tracks just have way more to offer than just the same 20 tracks that are being picked over and over again for seasons now.

Also: this is merely a possibility at this stage but there may be times where we will be given an additional update for CTGP which would include an indicator of a person having actually picked random which could open possibilities for a true random only format which we introduced before Season 13 but didn't gain a lot popularity due to us being unable to tell if a host truly picked random or not (unless they stream).
 

Starstrike

New member
Joined
Jun 25, 2018
Messages
9
#2
I’d highly not prefer the randomized list of tracks, half the fun of cts is knowing all the tracks and with the random tracks that already get announced it allows other people who don’t play cts often or don’t have much knowledge of cts, this makes it so lots of better/more experienced ct players are granted less of an advantage and it allows people who don’t even enjoy playing cts practice a few tracks right before the match, also for spots most cts are quite long so even with a small advantage at the start you can generally catch up pretty easily or just dodge, and I did a few tests of possible randoms and half of the tracks were luck tracks, this makes cts so much less skilled based and this could cause like a d4 ct team to have a strong chance of beating a much better team. Anyways if you were to incorporate this rule you should make it so both teams agree otherwise many people would quit cts, same thing should go for all random format if you do choose to incorporate it in the future, typed this on mobile btw so sry if anything isn’t written correctly or sounds bad.
 

Luke

Member
WL Staff
Supporter
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
41
Location
Illinois
Team
Clan Volo
#3
(struggling)) ok i figured it out: all tracks are luck based, expect for the tracks that people commonly believe are skill based, because thats rude
 
Joined
Jun 25, 2018
Messages
84
Team
Kaisers
#5
Can we like not do this thing again. you guys brought it up last season and no one wanted it. if the pack had a better diverse type of tracks this wouldn't be a problem. 40-50% of the tracks are retros. straight foward boring retros. others have unplayable mechanics. and bean adds tracks that no one plays (cotton castle for example. not reliable competitive wise)
Last season the problem was kinda understandable. since we had a streak without any updates. but rn we getting semi frequent updates. that will most likely change the meta in the long run. and if a track is way to op. just nerf it (like gba boo lake for example)
 

Jamie

New member
Supporter
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
1
Location
United Kingdom
Team
High Definition
#6
While it's a good thing that you're moving towards a limited track pool for CTWL, changing it every single week is so far in the wrong direction it defeats the purpose of a limited track pool aside from increasing the variety of track picks in a season.

By changing the pool of tracks every single week, you're essentially forcing people to learn tracks even quicker than the current situation. With the limited time a lot of people have, 20 tracks a week is just not feasible. You can maybe learn extremely basic lines and generally where to go but you wouldn't be able to go deep into many tracks and really learn them.

If you're going to do a select track pool for CTWL, it needs to be for the whole season, or at a minimum, half a season before switching to a different pool. The idea of changing every week just feels like you're pretending to go along with the track pool suggestion, but in reality it's just pandering to the people that are against the idea because they've already learned the tracks. It doesn't really benefit anyone making the learning period that short, unless you literally spend every minute of every day playing CTs.

It's like you're only putting the idea forward as a way to deal with the track pick situation in CTWL, rather than the main reason people even want a limited track pool.
 

DatRaptor

Member
EL Staff
Supporter
Joined
Jun 25, 2018
Messages
45
Location
germany
Team
sop
#7
If you look at the statistics from season 13, would you mind telling me how many teams even showed interest in this random match thingy?
The idea itself is good for those interested, but dont force it on teams that dont want it at all (we got trolling for that job already).
If i remember correctly, there was 1 match played in D1 where both teams mutually agreed to a random only war.
No match in D4
No match in D3 (not even a single suggestion)
No match in D2
(correct me if I´m wrong)
Not that many people are interested in random matches, so just because a few elitists are unhappy with the Meta, dont force it onto everybody else.
Keep it mutual agreement only.
 
Joined
Jun 25, 2018
Messages
34
Location
Ontario
Team
Infinite
Wiimmfi
1251-5428-9218
#9
I guess I will never get more then 0/24 points playing ctwl again
 

Twonk

It's all perspective
Supporter
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
2
#13
Would prefer to see a season long track pool, but anything is an upgrade from the CTWL experience that I got last season. I'm happy and motivated to play the next season of CTWL if changes like this are implemented
 

Stunky

Triple OwO
Administrator
WL Staff
EL Staff
Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2018
Messages
115
Location
England
#14
Season long track pool makes more sense as one of the main arguments to get the change in the first place was "weaker teams in the division don't have the time to practice all the tracks" when clearly learning 218 in the month or two's offseason (plus the weeks during the season) is a lot easier to spread than just slam dunking 20 or even 32 on people with a matter of days to learn. Heck make it like you get the same number of track variation as MK8DX, give people 48 tracks and you get a better spread of tracks while also being reasonable with numbers so people don't get the task of 216 to learn.

I'd personally be an advocate for mutual agreement/pre-season polls per division though, as I do feel that, especially if we're considering stuff like conferences or more teams in certain divisions, as the skill gap between divisions is bad enough already, and if we're expecting a brand new team who're playing for fun to be able to put up a fight against teams at the top of CTD3 (Succeed or Perish in particular this season we've just had), have fun watching sop win 12 tracks straight if we're expecting people to learn 20-32 tracks to a competent level within a week as opposed to giving them the opportunity to rely on a few comfort picks.

Don't think the track pool system is a bad idea, but there's a number of things to consider based upon how other matters turn out. It may be a fun way to learn, but the way it's done (and other factors coming in) may defeat the purpose of it existing in certain divisions.
 

Cynical

New member
Joined
Jun 25, 2018
Messages
11
Location
Virginia
Team
MKWii: AB MK8D: NFS
Wiimmfi
1938-7383-8781
#16
If I'm being honest, you only have to learn like a few tracks to be decent at cts. I like the pool idea but I'm afraid that it would be all retros or really shit tracks in that certain pool, but I also like the system we have now so I'm kinda neutral on this topic but I'm leaning towards the system we have now because a lot of people will be mad about this.
 

Leops

New member
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
22
#17
Mutual agreement please. Don’t force it just because some bois can’t play a certain track lol
Mutual agreement would destroy the purpose of this whole idea, I can't even believe that this came up in your mind without realizing how stupid it is. Second of all, this change is mostly directed towards D1, everyone in there knows every track, so at that point picking tracks which you are good at doesn't mean anything because everyone knows the track in and out, it's the fact that some tracks are just too ridiculous for certain spots which leads into the coinflip in the selection screen.

What you just said made absolutely no sense
 

DatRaptor

Member
EL Staff
Supporter
Joined
Jun 25, 2018
Messages
45
Location
germany
Team
sop
#18
Its not about teams being unable to play or struggle with learning new tracks. The main idea behind this is that people ONLY pick the same tracks in every match. What some of you dont realise, if you start a race in 2/3, how about you pick something else than Sparkly road, and dont complain about playing the same tracks in literally every war?
The people who complain the most about no variety in high divisions in CT wars are the same people who have the mindset "Ugh, we have nothing better to pick than Sparkly road (and Boo lake a few updates ago)".
Fix those problems in your own division and dont drag everybody else into it.
 

Leops

New member
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
22
#19
What some of you dont realise, if you start a race in 2/3, how about you pick something else than Sparkly road, and dont complain about playing the same tracks in literally every war?
The people who complain the most about no variety in high divisions in CT wars are the same people who have the mindset "Ugh, we have nothing better to pick than Sparkly road (and Boo lake a few updates ago)".
Fix those problems in your own division and dont drag everybody else into it.
From a competitive standpoint that would just be a big misplay. If you don't pick it the opponent will and you won't get the benefit.
 
Joined
Jun 25, 2018
Messages
84
Team
Kaisers
#20
Mutual agreement would destroy the purpose of this whole idea, I can't even believe that this came up in your mind without realizing how stupid it is. Second of all, this change is mostly directed towards D1, everyone in there knows every track, so at that point picking tracks which you are good at doesn't mean anything because everyone knows the track in and out, it's the fact that some tracks are just too ridiculous for certain spots which leads into the coinflip in the selection screen.

What you just said made absolutely no sense
How is this a bad idea. If this is meant for the D1 players I'm sure the D1 players will mutual agree on it. And the other ppl that DO NOT want this format won't have to play it. Simple as that and everyone will be happy
 
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