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please get your fucking act together

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travis

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#3
I mean, it's common knowledge that this community is rather undesirable, there's no need to make a thread announcing such a statement. Perhaps rather than throwing the word "fuck" around multiple times, you can suggest actual ideas to "change shit up."
 

~Maidvelia~

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#5
While I loved playing devil's advocate on Twitter because someone in this community actually decided to express emotion besides me, Nozzles is completely right here.

It is objectively pointless to just point out "known" problems without being constructive and providing solutions (if they were truly known people would talk about them more so I disagree here but I digress).

This is why we opened staff apps. We want people from all backgrounds who will provide solutions to the problems and are not afraid to call out broken systems.
 

lauren

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#9
this made my day & ^ cheers for that, means a lot

p.s the person above me rolls around in vaseline pretending to be a slug every wednesday evening (missed the last one due to explosive diarrhoea issues)
 
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#12
Yea, if you express emotion against certain people you basically get crucified. :p
 
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#13
Fair enough imo. You hate it, you hate it. So be it. But if then you'll say that mk8dx has also a shitty community, then you'll change again, and again, and again? There is no need to be Fully part of a community, and it's enough to be on multiple places if you play both games (or more depending on what you play).

By the way you ain't be the only one tired with some of this community, but hey, I don't complain (not like you at least, sir), because it happens Everywhere. Not only in mkwii's community.

Change to another game if thy your wish simply. Well then, have a good day there sir.
 

~Maidvelia~

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#14
Fair enough imo. You hate it, you hate it. So be it. But if then you'll say that mk8dx has also a shitty community, then you'll change again, and again, and again? There is no need to be Fully part of a community, and it's enough to be on multiple places if you play both games (or more depending on what you play).

By the way you ain't be the only one tired with some of this community, but hey, I don't complain (not like you at least, sir), because it happens Everywhere. Not only in mkwii's community.

Change to another game if thy your wish simply. Well then, have a good day there sir.
did you have to post this. if you wanted to play mk8d then play mk8d dont make a comment about it.
"By doing nothing and staying silent, we let others speak and act in our place. And if we're not proud of the choices they make, then we have no one to blame but ourselves. "

- Blake Belladonna

I love how I can make quotes from my favorite show be relevant.
 

ace

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#16
What else exactly is there to try?

I know Nick at this point has probably deactivated and just rq'd but I mean the community has tried a dozen different things by now in terms of bringing out new 'game modes' like Countdown and Item Rain, WL and other leagues have run since the game started competitively and there has been custom tournaments, forum tournaments and yearly events which have happened yet everyone is still bored.

You're going to be bored regardless of whatever the community does if you don't enjoy the concept of 12 monkeys driving round in circles.
 

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ace

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#18

~Maidvelia~

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#19
As much as I know you have good ideas, I'm not really going to sit through 1hr 36m of a podcast, could you give me a tl;dr of what you think would work and innovate the community?
Practical resources for newcomers -- media instead of 10 page guides if necessary. There aren't any FAQs being answered about networking settings, how to fix certain error codes, how to do basic modding, and how to do basic techs in the game we all take for granted, etc. The lack of resources makes newcomers have to find someone actually willing to show them the ropes of how to set things up, how to act in the community, and how to play the game. We are already not very open to new members and we just make it worse by not having resources.

Making lounge friendlier to new players. CT Lounge for example has a "get under 20 points, get a 3 match ban and strike" rule. While the strikes only lead up to a temporary ban, I do not agree with the idea of a strike coming from something that is not conduct related. The rule exists because of players who genuinely do not try to improve themselves and interrupt the flow for events with experienced players. This can be resolved by creating a tier purely for these players who do not know what is going on, and then the experienced players will have more even events.

More players who have capture cards utilizing constructive and informative content creation instead of just archives of gameplay or content that is purely for entertainment (Zak Louks is attempting to make a video series of how to play, he has been creating scripts for it). Despite Zak's initiative, it honestly baffles me how there are no good video guides out there with how old this game is, and how many players have picked it up (or those video guides became privated).

Teams with players in the older demographic should start scheduling outside of leagues with other teams in advance so that all the players on both teams can figure out conflicts with responsibilities such as work, college, etc. and all be able to meet up for the match (especially during off-season, there's a lot of potential matches that can happen but leagues are all some players think there is). Spontaneous match arrangement is just not as feasible when you need to field 5 players from the same team who all have specific obligations, unlike mogi lounge where you just get 12 individuals from anywhere. Certain Discord features like roles (to color-code the war lineup in advance) and pinned messages (so a forgetful leader is reminded when the war is going to be) allow for this to be easier than it would have been when we were still using Skype.

Community processes in general should follow a more streamlined process utilizing bots and webpages; Mogi Lounge was the first to pull this off with flying colors. We already were able to get a bot to keep track of war scores prior to lounge, but there are other processes that can be streamlined and the possibilities are endless: war arrangement, scheduling, registration, and automatic moderation can all utilize bots to be easier to use. I also want to see community processes based on other communities ("How does x community utilize their Discord bots?"). As for webpages, a way to register a team without any registration admin adding it would be pretty nice. Also a tourney.comeze clone that integrates MarioKartBoards accounts to prevent alts would make setting up tournaments easier. It could also include fields for stream links and network connection speeds (such information is useful for features such as High Data Rate).

We tend to "home grow" a lot of things in this community that have inherent flaws (one example being the playoffs format from WL Season 6 up until WL Season 13, and another one being sub-clans [I remember one person from outside of the community saying "what the hell is that?"]) and then we refuse to move on from those things. The "lack of desire to change" inhibits our chances of creating a direction for the community, and it was hard for me to wrap my head around why having a completely cheat-free league was not more hyped when we were finally able to get it, since it helps the game immensely in the longrun in regards to trust between players and cheating drama. We seem to adapt the community processes to meet our needs and our friends' needs over what will make the game a more healthy environment for anyone looking to play it, whether they are currently in the community or not. We need to look at what other, more successful communities do and try it out.

Not taking chances to push the metagame further by breaking out of our comfort zone creates a meta that gets stale over time (this could be seen as another reason why lounge got popular). Players then get bored of how things are only playing out in a few different ways and then usually quit the game. Wars should not be played the same way as mogi. Saik's thread here was a brilliant example of how to make all-run a viable counter to suicide bagging and barely anyone has capitalized on the ideas and strategies he presented. Everyone wants to drive as fast as they can or dodge and get points from shocks, when there is a lot more to winning a war than doing that. Utilizing the teamwork component of wars through schlagging and item roulette manipulation sounds a lot more interesting and deep than just running or dodging.

Players who want important topics to get attention need to make an effort to push those topics out to more people rather than just start something and expect it to gain traction (this does not work). Example: a Twitter thread was made to try to discuss community problems but it was not spread publicly anywhere (it was separate from the one posted on this thread).

The lack of clan wars from lounge creates an atmosphere where creating friendships and establishing solid chemistry become less important values. This is a put-off to a few demographics of players who wanted to join because of the aspect of clanning, teamwork, or because of wanting to fit in with a group. Another thing with clans is the lack of voiceless wars limits the amount of players that want to play them. Introverts most likely want to war for the team-based aspect, not the social aspect.

The lack of large tournaments creates a situation where there are no events that have a larger importance due to being a scheduled, infrequent event (ranging from annual to monthly). It is also easier to set up shoutcasts for tournaments because of how far in advance they are rather than something spontaneous like a Tier 5 Mogi or a league match that takes place when all the casters need to play a match themselves. The finals round is generally pretty hype and there is also a lot of traffic generated (especially from FFAs). Yes lounge is starting to host its own tournaments but there should be tournaments hosted by more than just them.

Many newcomers are also put off by the abundance of events that cater towards being tryhard or "sweaty" (credit to Zexous for that term). Some of them like more laidback things they can participate in, such as other characters or vehicles for example (this is proven by the popularity of some of Troy's recent streams like the Dolphin Dasher vs. Sneakster war). MarioKartWii.com had themed tournaments and they did not have to be large FFAs either (1 room of 12 was all that was needed), as well as themed clans. It seems like a lot of the established players are more concerned about their standing and reputation over letting go and trying to have fun. The core fundamentals of lounge encourage being as competitive as possible and if that is the only place to play besides clan leagues, you lose the interest of other demographics who want to participate in a less competitive fashion. Worldwides were great for these players who might be more skilled than the average normie but do not want the "sweatiness" of a lounge event. Funrooms could also be utilized so much more to keep less competitive players invested. It does not help that no more VR search has essentially ruined worldwides for awhile now. It also does not help that these other event types that cater to these demographics just get memed on or become part of shitposting. In the MarioKartWii.com days those topics were treated more seriously and it allowed for a larger variety and more laidback events to successfully occur.

To make it in this community in 2018, you need to fight for recognition, usually through your skill in lounge or league (and you do not get as easily accepted as a few years ago). I do not see many players getting as much recognition these days for other aspects besides skill, unlike the MarioKartWii.com days. The established players have encouraged playing the game over contributing content to the community. I do think there should be activities for the forum itself, and more effort put into media (outside of media staff) to kind of remedy this.

At the end of the day, we need to change to cater to more demographics than who we already have. Troy's Discord has over 5,000 people in it and it is basically an untapped pool of potential new players who could bring some new life into the community (as long as they aren't pushed away before even being given a chance to prove themselves).

If I think of anything else, I will edit it in. That's honestly kind of a small summary of what was discussed.
 
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ace

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#20
Practical resources for newcomers -- media instead of 10 page guides if necessary. There aren't any FAQs being answered about networking settings, how to fix certain error codes, how to do basic modding, and how to do basic techs in the game we all take for granted, etc. The lack of resources makes newcomers have to find someone actually willing to show them the ropes of how to set things up, how to act in the community, and how to play the game. We are already not very open to new members and we just make it worse by not having resources.
I agree with this point firstly, nobody wants to sit through text guides of anything, especially a community based around a younger demographic but the thing is, it is hard to find people who are motivated to make these guides in the first place for the newer audience. The main reason in my opinion is that the core community has been around for nearly a decade not. When you make media guides for newcomers you want the satisfaction of knowing that they're actually bringing in fresh faces to the community, unfortunately there are only a select few with followers/subscribers who aren't actively in the community already. (YouTubers like Mankalor and Troy)

Making lounge friendlier to new players. CT Lounge for example has a "get under 20 points, get a 3 match ban and strike" rule. While the strikes only lead up to a temporary ban, I do not agree with the idea of a strike coming from something that is not conduct related. The rule exists because of players who genuinely do not try to improve themselves and interrupt the flow for events with experienced players. This can be resolved by creating a tier purely for these players who do not know what is going on, and then the experienced players will have more even events.
Although I don't agree with the rule completely myself, I completely understand why it's a thing. It's a competitive place where even if a new player joins and brings themself down all the way to 0mmr, they still may be 10x worse than any other player in the room, even in Bronze only rooms. They are basically anchoring if they're completely new to CT's and will basically kill the MMR of someone before the room has even started just because of their experience. Although adding a tier for completely new players could be a good idea, I'm not sure if it would be active enough as most people would move from this tier to Bronze after a few weeks and the community simply does not attract new players at enough of a rate to make a new 'experienced player' tier possible. This of course leads to a problem where there is nowhere for new players to go competitively as wars are dead and lounge is the only competitive mario kart you're going to get outside of pro ww's (rare occurance) and WL (not suitable for new players either).

More players who have capture cards utilizing constructive and informative content creation instead of just archives of gameplay or content that is purely for entertainment (Zak Louks is attempting to make a video series of how to play, he has been creating scripts for it). Despite Zak's initiative, it honestly baffles me how there are no good video guides out there with how old this game is, and how many players have picked it up (or those video guides became privated).
Once again like stated in my first response, there are not many people in the community who have the reach to the younger audience, and that's even if they had the motivation to do it in the first place. Of course it wouldn't take that much time to go over basic shortcuts etc. but there is still plenty of outside material which can be used such as the Mario Kart wiki as well as old tutorials on tracks (a lot of information is still relevant, it's just been refined over the years).

Teams with players in the older demographic should start scheduling outside of leagues with other teams in advance so that all the players on both teams can figure out conflicts with responsibilities such as work, college, etc. and all be able to meet up for the match (especially during off-season, there's a lot of potential matches that can happen but leagues are all some players think there is). Spontaneous match arrangement is just not as feasible when you need to field 5 players from the same team who all have specific obligations, unlike mogi lounge where you just get 12 individuals from anywhere. Certain Discord features like roles (to color-code the war lineup in advance) and pinned messages (so a forgetful leader is reminded when the war is going to be) allow for this to be easier than it would have been when we were still using Skype.
From what I can understand you're talking about the fact that there is a lack of wars outside of the main leagues in comparison to before lounge. I'm speaking on my own behalf and obviously do not speak for the community but the matter of the fact is, it's just boring.

There are a lot of new games out, the majority of the community followers Nintendo projects and are playing on their switch's and generally just play this game for the league and also play in the lounge when they want.

I personally enjoy wars but even if you try and schedule them, emergencies happen, people lose motivation over the period of setting up the war and actually playing it out. The clans I'm in being VA and Zt aren't even 'MKW clans' anymore and focus on other games over this. The lounge is a really good way to just instantly get to play as there's events in each tier pretty much after each other at peak times meaning you know you're going to play and don't have to risk the chance of not getting 5 in your clan and warring so people just tend to drift towards lounge. (It's also a variety with the different formats).

Community processes in general should follow a more streamlined process utilizing bots and webpages; Mogi Lounge was the first to pull this off with flying colors. We already were able to get a bot to keep track of war scores prior to lounge, but there are other processes that can be streamlined and the possibilities are endless: war arrangement, scheduling, registration, and automatic moderation can all utilize bots to be easier to use. I also want to see community processes based on other communities ("How does x community utilize their Discord bots?"). As for webpages, a way to register a team without any registration admin adding it would be pretty nice. Also a tourney.comeze clone that integrates MarioKartBoards accounts to prevent alts would make setting up tournaments easier. It could also include fields for stream links and network connection speeds (such information is useful for features such as High Data Rate).
Nothing really to add to this, I agree using bots in this day and age is obviously better as it gets rid of the possibility of human error which we've seen in the past.

We tend to "home grow" a lot of things in this community that have inherent flaws (one example being the playoffs format from WL Season 6 up until WL Season 13, and another one being sub-clans [I remember one person from outside of the community saying "what the hell is that?"]) and then we refuse to move on from those things. The "lack of desire to change" inhibits our chances of creating a direction for the community, and it was hard for me to wrap my head around why having a completely cheat-free league was not more hyped when we were finally able to get it, since it helps the game immensely in the longrun in regards to trust between players and cheating drama. We seem to adapt the community processes to meet our needs and our friends' needs over what will make the game a more healthy environment for anyone looking to play it, whether they are currently in the community or not. We need to look at what other, more successful communities do and try it out.
In terms of sub-clans, I agree that's a stupid term and can confuse new players and I hope at this point nobody is categorising clans between main-clans and sub-clans as from what I can tell, nobody even does this anymore or even cares about other clans that you're in. Players should just play who they want to play with, if a team would rather you only have one team that's understandable but the term sub-clans should've been gone years ago.

The cheat free league isn't as hyped as you thought it would be as we've got to a point where those who are perceived as cheaters just get called out for it 24/7 anyway, I've not seen examples where somebody refuses to play WL vs another player because they 'cheat', they tend to just flame them and say they 'cheat' anyway.

I did not know EL was a cheat-free league as I've only just recently returned but my initial reaction was. "What's the fucking point in this, all you're doing is splitting the community even more". That basically is my two-cents of it, it's a cool idea for those who genuinely care about having a cheat free league but all it really does is split the community in half as not everyone is going to want to play. (I've not read into it but I imagine you have to load the game a certain way which is why it's not being implemented to WL)

Not taking chances to push the metagame further by breaking out of our comfort zone creates a meta that gets stale over time (this could be seen as another reason why lounge got popular). Players then get bored of how things are only playing out in a few different ways and then usually quit the game. Wars should not be played the same way as mogi. Saik's thread here was a brilliant example of how to make all-run a viable counter to suicide bagging and barely anyone has capitalized on the ideas and strategies he presented. Everyone wants to drive as fast as they can or dodge and get points from shocks, when there is a lot more to winning a war than doing that. Utilizing the teamwork component of wars through schlagging and item roulette manipulation sounds a lot more interesting and deep than just running or dodging.
It'd be nice to see a fresh change in WL but from what I've seen, it's not exactly like the team numbers are dropping (admittedly I haven't checked so I may be wrong). The problem is that the shock is such a powerful item, no matter how much you try to force no over-lap and all-run, people will do whatever they can to sit in 10th and get it, even if it means risking penalties.

Although some people may be bored of the current formats with trolling and suicide bagging, many teams are not willing to move on from this (we saw the negativity towards no overlap in the past) as many teams have players who have been ONLY bagging/trolling for years now and these players themselves want to keep it this way.

The lack of clan wars from lounge creates an atmosphere where creating friendships and establishing solid chemistry become less important values. This is a put-off to a few demographics of players who wanted to join because of the aspect of clanning, teamwork, or because of wanting to fit in with a group. Another thing with clans is the lack of voiceless wars limits the amount of players that want to play them. Introverts most likely want to war for the team-based aspect, not the social aspect.
Same as before, lounge is 10x more accessible and reliable with low numbers on wiimmfi outside of peak times (7-10PM Euro time and then also later on for Americans). I know clanning was always a good concept and was the reason I joined myself but unfortunately like I said, the people who have the reach of a LOT of people, aren't promoting it as much as possible. If you really want the clan scene back, go get troy to promote the site and explain what clanning is and how people can get involved in the community to take part in similar things he shows in his videos (Item Rain, 2v2's etc).

The lack of large tournaments creates a situation where there are no events that have a larger importance due to being a scheduled, infrequent event (ranging from annual to monthly). It is also easier to set up shoutcasts for tournaments because of how far in advance they are rather than something spontaneous like a Tier 5 Mogi or a league match that takes place when all the casters need to play a match themselves. The finals round is generally pretty hype and there is also a lot of traffic generated (especially from FFAs). Yes lounge is starting to host its own tournaments but there should be tournaments hosted by more than just them.
Yeah, we really need tournaments on a more regular consistent basis. Not much else to say but having FFA's with finals being casted was always a positive in the community, sad to see it's dwindled to near nothing.

To make it in this community in 2018, you need to fight for recognition, usually through your skill in lounge or league (and you do not get as easily accepted as a few years ago). I do not see many players getting as much recognition these days for other aspects besides skill, unlike the MarioKartWii.com days. The established players have encouraged playing the game over contributing content to the community. I do think there should be activities for the forum itself, and more effort put into media (outside of media staff) to kind of remedy this.
Your reputation has always come from your skill level, not the way you innovate things, how nice you are to people and your activity levels.

Jeff is known because he is a good player, he can be an asshole but he is extremely good so he is a known name in the community.

Tyler1 in league is a known name because he was toxic and because he's a good Draven player and reached rank 5 this season.

This goes for so many different games also, I was VERY toxic on World of Warcraft but ended up going pro just because I knew how to play the game at a high level.

You're always going to get your reputation by being good or being popular by having a large following, that's how video game communities will always be. And if you're one of the players with a reputation because you're good, of course you're going to take practice over creating content for new players as the better you become, the bigger your ego is (obviously not in all situations, some people are different) so you're not going to care much for new players in comparison to a noob friendly youtuber.

At the end of the day, we need to change to cater to more demographics than who we already have. Troy's Discord has over 5,000 people in it and it is basically an untapped pool of potential new players who could bring some new life into the community (as long as they aren't pushed away before even being given a chance to prove themselves).
This is the #1 and basically only source of new players you're going to get. You need to contact Troy yourself or someone in the staff needs to if you really want to gather the numbers you need for your ideas.

These are the new players who are watching Troy's item rain videos in wacky character combinations who want to take part in these rooms, these are the people you need to contact before they turn into Funky Kong meta-slaves if they ever find their own way into the community.

The community is less toxic towards new players as it used to be, you just need the person with the biggest following by a landslide to help you achieve what you want to happen in this community.
 
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