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CT Proposed Format

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#21
I dont think we will get anywhere in WL anymore with trying to get all CTs back. Council doesnt want it, and those People who are interested in new and "competetive" ideas can suggest those and Play in WL. And everybody who wants to Play normal CTs can go to EL. Maybe the split is the best for the community, it will stop a lot of unnecessary discussions.
 

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#22
Based on recent discussions that bring to light the kinds of things we want to see in CTWL in regards to the direction staff want to take the league (while also addressing some community concerns), I have narrowed down the necessary attributes we should see in a track picking format.

They are the following 5 points:
  • A portion of choice for teams
  • Keeping things fresh/varied (a random or restricted portion in addition to the choice portion)
  • Encouraging being better at the pack overall as opposed to specialty tracks (that's where random helps; also having lists in advance relates to this principle and helps newcomers as well with getting used to tracks)
  • Reducing the frequency of luck tracks or retros (we can easily adjust this to make things more enjoyable)
  • Teams can ban some stuff to keep broken tracks at bay
 
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#23
Think u could just do smth like 100 tracks but each team is allowed to ban 15 tracks each with 5 protects in place. Idk I feel like this is as close as u can get to what ppl want (218 format) while still not making the tracklist too massive.
 
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Thread Starter #24
Think u could just do smth like 100 tracks but each team is allowed to ban 15 tracks each with 5 protects in place. Idk I feel like this is as close as u can get to what ppl want (218 format) while still not making the tracklist too massive.
5 protects from each team, that's 10 tracks and it pretty much determines 10/12 tracks that will be picked, which would generally be the same tracks that are picked each war. Unless you mean 100 randomized tracks each week.
 
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#26
The thing is, is that because you are good at a select few tracks, you still need to learn other tracks regardless because of what the other team may pick. If people benefit from practicing a handful of tracks they should be able to pick them and win. Track knowledge is what custom tracks should be about, and not having any good tracks on the table with the current track list is very frequent.

I don't get what the problem is about picking similar tracks each war. It doesn't make sense to me. Please explain how having 218 tracks to pick from is a bad thing for CTWL
 

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#27
I don't get what the problem is about picking similar tracks each war. It doesn't make sense to me. Please explain how having 218 tracks to pick from is a bad thing for CTWL
Whoever gets more track picks in the roulette automatically wins the match is the tl;dr.

Also 218 is too much to practice for newcomers, it's daunting.

The 5 bullet points I mentioned should result in a format that both newcomers and veterans can enjoy.
 
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#28
It doesn't seem like many ct mains like the lists from what i've heard, although maybe i'm wrong. Maybe this could be just for the lowest division? "new players" wont be in d1 because at that point you would need to know all the tracks anyway. I think the higher divisions should get all 216 tracks on the table.
 

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#29
It doesn't seem like many ct mains like the lists from what i've heard, although maybe i'm wrong. Maybe this could be just for the lowest division? "new players" wont be in d1 because at that point you would need to know all the tracks anyway. I think the higher divisions should get all 216 tracks on the table.
That still doesn't solve the problem of "more track picks = automatically win the war". EL can mess around with that, but we want to avoid that.
 
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#30
At the point of D1 you wont automatically lose the war if you don't get your track picks. Randomizing tracks could result teams having good tracks and the other team having bad tracks, so its very similar. At that point you should be practiced with every track regardless.

And what you said about more track picks = winning the war, don't you think if a team gets more tracks they are good at in the list = winning the war. It doesn't make any sense to me. The randomness is there anyway
 
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Thread Starter #31
At the point of D1 you wont automatically lose the war if you don't get your track picks. Randomizing tracks could result teams having good tracks and the other team having bad tracks, so its very similar. At that point you should be practiced with every track regardless.
There are different tracks that are considered ‘broken’ due to them giving your team a pretty much for sure win or a very high percent chance of winning based on your starting spots. If your team gets those tracks before the opponents do for the spots they benefit a lot, then it’s more of “who gets the trackpick before the opponent” which is something we can avoid most of the time (since they do role into the randomized track lists, but teams can ban them from the match if they wish). It’s not much of who knows the track more or who’s better at the game itself.
 
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#32
to my knowledge there aren't tracks that give a high percent chance of winning due to spots shouldn't you be able to just outline them?
 
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#33
to my knowledge there aren't tracks that give a high percent chance of winning due to spots shouldn't you be able to just outline them?
lol?

one season i played with Su, in division 1 i might add, we lost almost every match, a big factor being the track pick issue (most matches were close except for like one)

the match we played RE, our entire strategy was to spam retro luck tracks and hope we got enough track picks to where actual skill did not matter (since they were the best team in the division by a good amount), and that is exactly what happened. we got 10/12 track picks, all of them either retro circuit tracks or tracks like seasonal circuit with a lot of offroad to cut off, and we ended up winning the match by like 18 or some small number like that.

if track RNG did not exist, there was no chance in hell we would have won that match, and if you think track pick luck has no effect on matches, you are obviously living in a fantasy world. it affects matches even in D1.

edit: also to answer your point about "there arent tracks that give a high percent chance of winning due to spots":

see: punch city 2, i know it ended up being banned from the league but still
 
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#34
punch city 2 isn't in the pack, give me examples of tracks that actually almost gaurentee wins. Also why is a track list good, good players who practice lots of tracks should be rewarded.
 
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#35
punch city 2 isn't in the pack, give me examples of tracks that actually almost gaurentee wins. Also why is a track list good, good players who practice lots of tracks should be rewarded.
jesus christ. CT teams have been unbalanced in the past anyway so why would the league have a system that just further rewards them based on RNG? there are no "examples" of tracks that "guarantee" wins as it is 100% based on the team that picks the track.

bottom line, if a team that practices certain tracks gets all of their track picks in matches, which is a luck based scenario, 9 times out of 10 they will win. i cant understand how you arent comprehending this.
 
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#36
wtf? Your problem with no track order is because of the roulette picking a random track, but you just want to add more randomness? That makes no sense. And wins are not 100% based on track picks, because if you practice tracks they may pick, then you can still beat them on. With a list you could randomly get all the tracks your team is good at and the other team has none they are good at. Its the same randomness just done in a more arbitrary and weird way. Whats the problem with having all 218 tracks on the table. A list will not change that there is a random element because the list is fucking randomly generated.
 
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#38
aight, was just trying to understand your point of view, but thats okay too :p
 
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#39
aight, was just trying to understand your point of view, but thats okay too :p
if you want a tl;dr

randomizing a preset list from 218 tracks provides much more room for tracks that no team has played extensively (i.e. a more fair match, where knowledge of all 218 tracks will be a bigger factor)

as it is if all 218 tracks are allowed, each team would only pick 10-15 tracks of their preference, so track pick luck would become a HUGE factor since there are only 20-30 tracks that would likely be chosen, and the team that gets the most of their preferred tracks picked would gain an advantage.

yes, it is entirely possible that the randomized lists would still contain tracks that heavily favor one team. however the statistical odds of it happening in a way that a significant portion of tracks would favor one team is very slim, to the point where i believe this is the more effective way to make matches come down to more general skill and knowledge of all of the 218 tracks rather than just the 10-15 that the teams choose every week
 
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#40
The chances of a war being determined by track picks is *very* slim tbh, but I don't see the point because it doesn't reward those who practice a specific track. Maybe something along the lines of instead of protecting tracks you could add 3 to the list maybe? and those 3 cannot be banned. Maybe something on those lines would be a step in the right direction since you will still be rewarded for practicing a specific track.
 
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