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Another CT WL suggestion for S16

What CT format do you want to play

  • Weekly CT list

    Votes: 6 25.0%
  • All tracks with pick/ban

    Votes: 18 75.0%

  • Total voters
    24
Joined
Jun 25, 2018
Messages
57
Location
germany
Team
sop
#1
Hey everyone, here we are again with another suggestion for CTWL.
(i apologise in Advance if some of my words are capatilised for no reason but i have no idea how to turn off german autocorrect on my browser, wich causes a lot of words to Change for no reason)
S15 started, and we got yet another completely new format for this season. A lot of people seem to not mind it or are happy, but there is also a great number of people who did not enjoy the announcement of the Season 15 CTWL Format. The results were of course, a lot of complaining, a lot of time wasted in previous discussions, and a lot of unhappy people.
Most People just decided to Play anyways, simply because there is currently no alternative for a big, competitive CT league. Therefore, i have a suggestions for S16, since right now we have quite a lot of time to gather oppinions, and try to create a healthy environment for all Kinds of CT Players.

The main difference of CT Players is, that some prefer to Play a Weekly list of preselected tracks, and the others want to pick every single CT they want, without restrictions ( a small restriction like pick/ban would be accaptable for most, but i will get to that later).
In the current Format you wont make everyone happy, and About half of the community will Always complain. Both Formats have their pros and cons, but it is basically up to personal Preference wich Format you prefer.

There has been a vote for a new Pick/ban Format already, and it has been greatly appreciated by a majority of the community. For S15 however… they mixed it with the Weekly track Rotation. wich didnt solve any Problems.

My Suggestion:
When signing up for CTs on Season 16, allow People to sign up for 2 different Formats.
You either sign up for:
-CT WL with a Weekly Rotation of tracks
-CT WL with ALL tracks and a small pick/ban Phase
eg:
sop will Play CT All track WL
bc will play CT weekly WL


Every Team that signs up now has the alternative where they want to Play. If you are a new Team and struggle to learn 200 tracks at once, you can pick the Weekly Rotation. If you are a Team that complains to much About trackpick abuse, you can Chose the Weekly Format aswell. And the Teams that just want to Play CTs can sign up for the all track Format.
This will solve the Problem of Teams being unhappy with the Format council "Forces" for a Season, and will reduce the Chance of Teams or individual Players dropping or losing Motivation on both sides.
One possible Problem that might arise for the first Season is: "How many Teams will sign up, how will you balance the divisions."
Looking back at when CT WL started, we had multiple Seasons of only 1 division. At Season 13, we had 4 Divisions. The playerbase to Play 2 Formats with 2 Divisions each exists.
But thats what this thread is for, explain the Situation, and get Feedback on what Kind of Format People want to Play in the future.

Summary again:
Option 1
-Weekly track Rotation

Option 2
-All tracks with pick/ban


Thanks for reading, and i wish everybody participating in S15 good luck.
 

~Maidvelia~

Every day I'll fight to be Legendary
Administrator
WL Staff
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Joined
Jun 25, 2018
Messages
356
Location
Warren, MI, USA
Team
U★, HD☆
NNID
Maidvelia
Switch
4185-3145-7717
Wiimmfi
4297-4674-3102
#2
Eh, it's a constructive thread I'll somewhat defend it.

As long as the format is uniform to the entire league, both of these choices have their virtues. Uniform is how most communities do it in their leagues and it should not be deviated from in order to be taken seriously by migrants from other communities and/or organizations that may be interested in observing our community.

But I want this food for thought considered for next season and onward:

With the recent strides in the community (such as CTGP-only and MogiBot) there is an example being painted here that settling on current or recent ideas is not the way to get progress and eventually achieve optimum results. Innovation comes from thinking outside the box and trying new things. If we stuck to previous approaches all the time then MogiBot wouldn't even exist and we would still have archaic processes for match setup that everyone got sick of.

What needs to be done is more analytical thinking based on an external community's way of processing ideas (ex: "How would this scenario factor into a larger community that's made it to esports-level?"). We always process ideas based on a perspective of how it affects just us in our current state, and it holds back potential. In order to achieve a format that connects with the direction the league is going but is also optimal for player satisfaction, there needs to be much less surface-level thinking. For WL in particular, don't look at tracks from a "this track has lag" or "these ramps don't work" perspective. Track functionality is not the concern; it's the design in relation to the perceived optimal play for a team vs. team race on that track. You need a "this track is unbalanced for competitive due to x factor causing players to have to perform x behaviors making the race one-sided" (x could mean a lack of item sets, amount of catch-up potential, an extremely powerful shortcut that benefits from the right item coordination, or an extremely powerful shock spot, etc.).

Once this kind of thinking is understood by everyone else, then actual progress can be made from discussions instead of arguments that keep going in circles. You can be on the same page and still have differing opinions. It's when you're on two completely different wavelengths that any arguments you make fall short! If balance is not considered from an argument that contains a detailed synthesis derived from a competitive balance analysis, then every format tested each season will just lean more towards the end goal of the league and less toward satisfaction of participants. The idea is to still keep the end goal accomplished while raising satisfaction. It's all a balancing act and surface-level thinking will not achieve it.

Going back to the oldest way for tracks would never be happening unless many tracks get replaced with tracks that obey design principles that cater toward a balanced and professional team vs. team environment. In addition, the most experienced players can tell you that the old format does not work. It is important to acknowledge the weight that experience has on someone's claims and not just always shrug it off as elitism.

However, consider this as well: Context is King. Just because this particular old way has proven to be ineffective in the past, some staff may believe that other old ways of doing things were discredited too quickly. It was more so along the lines of "changing for the sake of something fresh" and not exactly with a particular mission statement in mind. If you see a reversion to an old format and not a reversion in another area of the league, it means the context lines up with "History has proven this method to be the most successful towards our end goal". Formats from the most successful leagues should definitely not be scoffed at just because you do not like them, think they are "dated", or think what currently is in place "is not broken don't touch it". History is meant for us to learn from, and that includes borrowing from it in addition to rejecting it sometimes.

While some people play WL purely for fun, you must realize that even from the league's origin there was competitive viability and professionalism as a long-term priority. With the switch to CTGP-only, it is now easier to pursue more facets of this and that is why you are seeing so many changes from the norm in many areas of the league (taking away the ability to cheat is a massive door-opener for several opportunities). Also, players have to consider that in order to achieve more ambitious end goals, certain sacrifices must be made. If we only choose a system that appeals to a specific demographic, growth is not possible. Changes have to be made and that means you may not like what happens. Consider the big picture for once when considering if a change is "bad" or not, and not just the current player base. We sure as hell do not do enough of that with every major community decision we get into heated discussions over.

Enjoyment is very important too, and to that end I believe there needs to be a larger variety of competitions that offer different formats instead of one competition trying to deviate from its mission just to make everyone it can happy. That's just not feasible enough to happen in WL with where it's aimed to be heading. I think more people need to utilize challonge and the tournament section, to create lower-effort events that will keep players happy that may be unhappy with any changes to Lounge or WL moving forward. Take some initiative and you will see results.

At the end of the day, the new format needs to align with the vision of the league while being comfortable enough with participants. This requires a considerable amount of effort and brainstorming to create the optimal track list, the same goes with optimizing how one goes about in life. However, doing your best usually pays off in the end (remember that!).

Figure out what the big picture of a staff group is and why your argument does not fit before immediately criticizing staff's decisions. Maybe then we will see progress. This must apply to every major change from here on out.

Thanks for reading.
 

PhoenixRiku

Member
Supporter
Joined
Jun 25, 2018
Messages
33
#3
Using competitive and for everyone in back to back sentences... this post is an argument for making this pretty uncompetitive league into a for fun event no competitiveness allowed. Which is fine to suggest just don’t use the “competitive” buzzword for no reason when what you are suggesting is not a competitive format and is purely to just have fun.

Just to clarify I am not saying X format is superior I’m just sick of the garbage arguments of people conveniently using “it’s not competitive” and then 5 minutes later “it’s not for everyone”. Pick one they aren’t the same and in fact are very different.
 

~Maidvelia~

Every day I'll fight to be Legendary
Administrator
WL Staff
Supporter
Joined
Jun 25, 2018
Messages
356
Location
Warren, MI, USA
Team
U★, HD☆
NNID
Maidvelia
Switch
4185-3145-7717
Wiimmfi
4297-4674-3102
#4
^Exactly.

You can tweak a format to make it slightly more comfortable or tolerable to play, but you cannot make a format geared toward competition that will also satisfy everyone. It's one or the other.
 
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